Episode 47 with Payne Schoen
Leadership, Strengths, and the Power of Serving Others
Featuring Payne Schoen | Tales of Leadership Podcast Ep. 47
Payne Schoen’s leadership journey is rooted in something many leaders understand deeply but rarely say out loud—it started with proving himself. As a middle child growing up in sports, he connected performance, influence, and worth early on. He chased athletic success, in part, to compete with his older brother, and through football especially, he began to learn the disciplines of trust, teamwork, and influence. But like many leaders, the journey was not linear. Payne’s path eventually took him from sports into public accounting, where he quickly realized he was operating in an environment that did not align with how he was wired. That tension became one of the earliest signals that leadership is not just about performance—it is also about alignment.
As Payne reflected on his own growth, one truth became clear: leadership is influence, and influence is the ability to get people moving in the same direction toward a common goal. That definition goes deeper than charisma or control. It means helping people align around purpose, vision, and direction. In the conversation, Payne made an important distinction between influence and manipulation. Both can move people, but one is rooted in service and the other in selfishness. That difference matters. Leaders who operate with the right intent create trust. Leaders who manipulate eventually erode it.
One of the most powerful themes from the episode was the long journey of self-discovery. Payne shared how, for years, he measured himself by other people’s expectations—what his father recommended, what a profession promised, what looked successful from the outside. It was not until he entered the Maxwell Leadership space and began doing the deeper internal work that things started to change. He stopped checking boxes and began asking what his life and gifts actually meant through his own lens. That shift brought him back to a quote he had memorized years earlier from Coach Carter—a passage about not shrinking, about letting your own light shine, and in doing so giving others permission to do the same. That is what real leadership does—it liberates other people to rise.
Another major takeaway from this conversation was the role of values in leadership. Payne and Josh both explored how values are not abstract ideas—they are the foundation leaders build from. Payne described how values became the starting point for understanding why people lead the way they do, how they make decisions, and what drives their behavior under pressure. Josh expanded on that by sharing how he developed his own values through reflection on past experiences, red lines, admired leaders, failed leaders, and the environments that shaped him. The conversation made one thing clear: if you do not know your values, you will eventually build your leadership on someone else’s expectations instead of your own convictions.
The discussion around strengths was just as important. Payne was candid that much of his early life was spent trying to become what he thought others wanted rather than identifying how he was uniquely gifted. That is why the conversation around strengths landed with so much force. Both Payne and Josh emphasized that leaders often waste too much energy trying to become well-rounded in areas where they will only ever be average. Extraordinary leadership does not come from obsessing over weakness. It comes from understanding your gifts, putting yourself in environments that stretch them, and surrounding yourself with people whose strengths cover your dead space. Great leaders do not try to be everything—they build teams that can see what they cannot.
This idea came to life in Payne’s description of how he now works. As a creator and coach, he knows where his strengths show up—relationship-building, intuition, communication, idea generation. But he also knows where his blind spots are. So before launching a new idea, he intentionally sends it to people who think differently, people who can see the flaws, pressure test the plan, and sharpen the edges. What once would have felt like criticism now feels like protection. That is a mature leader at work. A leader who knows that honest feedback, when rooted in trust, is not an attack—it is an advantage.
The episode also challenged a common leadership problem: too many people never stop long enough to think. Josh raised the point that many organizations, especially large institutions, do not create the conditions for deliberate reflection. Leaders are often asked about their leadership philosophy before they have ever been given the time or framework to truly develop one. Payne resonated deeply with that, and the conversation turned toward the importance of pausing, orienting, and reflecting before acting. In military terms, Josh described the importance of taking a tactical pause to understand the environment before moving out. In leadership, that same principle applies. Leaders who never stop to think will eventually drift into roles, identities, and decisions that were never truly theirs.
The conversation came back again and again to relationships. When Josh asked Payne what the common thread had been throughout every stage of his life and career, the answer was immediate: relationships. Not status. Not titles. Not individual success. Relationships. That theme echoed throughout the entire episode. Payne made the case that the greatest impact a leader can have is helping other people operate in their own strength zones. Josh connected that back to his own mission of reducing toxic leadership and helping prevent the kind of poor leadership that drives good people out of organizations and, in some cases, leads to devastating personal consequences. The connection was clear. Leadership is not about preserving your own image. It is about multiplying value in others.
Toward the end of the episode, Payne shared where he is now on his leadership journey. His current work is centered on helping people get into the right seat—personally and professionally—faster than he did. He understands what it feels like to spend years grinding in places that do not fit, wondering what is wrong, when the real issue is misalignment. That is why his work matters. It is not simply about performance improvement. It is about helping people find clarity, courage, and congruence so they can lead and live with greater purpose. Josh captured that well throughout the conversation by continually returning to the themes of purpose, perspective, and passion. When those things connect, leaders find not just productivity, but fulfillment.
Final Thoughts
Leadership is not about becoming the version of yourself that earns the most approval. It is about becoming the version of yourself that can create the most impact. Payne Schoen’s story is a reminder that growth often begins when we stop chasing other people’s definitions of success and start doing the internal work to understand who we are, what we value, and how we are wired to serve. When leaders know their values, embrace their strengths, and invest in relationships, they stop performing leadership and start living it. That is how Purposeful Accountable Leaders grow—not by chasing the spotlight, but by helping others rise in it.
After Action Review (AAR)
Am I building my leadership around my authentic strengths and values, or around other people’s expectations of success?
Where am I currently out of alignment—and what is that costing me in fulfillment, influence, or growth?
Who do I need around me to sharpen my blind spots and help me become a more Purposeful Accountable Leader?
Tales of Leadership Mission: To develop Purposeful Accountable Leaders (PAL) by arming you with the tools
required to lead with purpose, integrity, and accountability.
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